Why do you think 21CB didn't do as well as American Idiot?

[saraHsunshine]

Reason 1: promotion. I feel like with AI there was smash-hit single after single, with this album none of the singles have made that big of a splash, I rarely hear anything but 21 Guns on the radio and don't see the videos too much.

Reason 2: Different albums sell differently. Timing was perfect for AI. Think about Dookie and Insomniac, Insomniac is not worse or better, just different and not what people expected or wanted at the time. 21CB has not really snowballed to get a huge reaction out of non-Green Day fans like AI was able to.

[November's Storms]

Yeah call it a simple argument but I think they have to bring back Rob Cavallo.

[sara_gd]

I agree with what is already said.

The promotion has not been really good. Concerning the singles, it's a total mess! And to me the singles are not the best songs of the record, I'd have chosen "Horseshoes and handgrenades", one of the "Viva La Gloria" or "Restless Heart Syndrome". I don't like "21 Guns" and it's too much like ''WMUWSE", so people thought the band didn't really evolved that much with the new record. And that's kinda sad that people make this assumption because I think 21st CB worth more than that.

But I'd admit 21st CB is complex, and maybe too much complex. It's a great album, but I think many people are waiting for the band to make some songs less worked with perfection. I don't know how to explain it, I'm sorry, I hope you understand what I'm trying to say...

However, I'm happy with this era, because the band isn't everywhere like they were during AI. Like in magazines, TV and stuff, they're less exposed now, (that's how I feel in France anyway). And the band doesn't seem to care about its image. And everything happens live. To me they're currently the best live band that exists. I mean, look at these almost 3-hour long shows and setlists! They also take requests, put a lot a of old songs...

Ok, 21st CB didn't do as well as AI (and it was to be expected), but they remain at their best.

I agree with everything, specially what I bolded.

I think the time AI came out is also important, and the music wasn't as good in my opinion (AI is my favorite record).

But, as OliDayyy said, I'm happy with how things are at the moment. I just can't agree more

[mandajane]

I never felt like it was the music. There was piano in American Idiot. I guess if anything related to music it would be that it was not something really that new. It was basically in the style of American Idiot with different lyrics and few extra bells and whistles.

this.

and the surprise element to AI had a lot to do with it too. 21CB was very anticipated and expected and we knew more or less that the style of the new album was going to be similar to AI

[Moffie]

You guys are VERY MUCH underselling the importance of the timing of American Idiot. Some, if not most of you are 15-18 so you were kids when American Idiot came out.

The vast majority of average people buying Green Day albums are not us, the fanatics who love the music, the news etc.

2004 was a horrible time for America. Kids, we were once viewed internationally (in another time and place where my family is from) as a respected member of the international community. Bush exposed us as adolescents with guns that were too big.

THe average person buying American Idiot in 2004 was was not you or I, it was the average liberal or intelligent person that was happy American Idiot existed, not because Mike looked hot or Billie Joe brought a kid on stage, it was because it was the first good rock album that was an international success that said really spoke to the wars (by the way, Obama just announced all military action in Iraq to end as of August 31st).

If you'll notice, older people like myself and Bastard point out these things.

I think the timing was very important because back then, even though I was 12/13 when it came out, I was living in Dallas, TX at the time (where Bush is from!) and AI spoke to me in that there isn't any logical thinking in what Bush was doing. He had title so he had the power over the public. AI helped me realize that many of us were being brain-washed into thinking that we were the Heros going in and fighting "the Bad Guys."

Just because we were kids when it came out doesn't mean some of us didn't understand how important that was.

[klytaemnestra]

You guys are VERY MUCH underselling the importance of the timing of American Idiot. Some, if not most of you are 15-18 so you were kids when American Idiot came out.

The vast majority of average people buying Green Day albums are not us, the fanatics who love the music, the news etc.

2004 was a horrible time for America. Kids, we were once viewed internationally ("in another time and place where my family is from") as a respected member of the international community. Bush exposed us as adolescents with guns that were too big.

THe average person buying American Idiot in 2004 was was not you or I, it was the average liberal or intelligent person that was happy American Idiot existed, not because Mike looked hot or Billie Joe brought a kid on stage, it was because it was the first good rock album that was an international success that really spoke to the wars (by the way, Obama just announced all military action in Iraq to end as of August 31st).

I travel internationally all the time, and you could literally see the change in how people would respond to me as an American before the wars. It changed and I would have to earn more people's trust. It was a very real thing. That's dissipated somwhat and a lot thankful to the internet. But I remember before 04 thinking, I hope people know, all Americans don't want this shit. AMERICAN IDIOT, right out the box, TITLE TRACK, song 1, right out the box said THIS. It said what I wanted the world to know, I'M NOT AN AMERICAN IDIOT.

If you'll notice, older people like myself and Bastard point out these things.

I would bet my balls to a dollar that THE, by far NUMBER ONE reason American Idiot was more popular (in all of its different flavors) was by and large to the political and social climate of it's day.

IF TCB came out in 2004, it would have been more popular with the average person. It's still a raging success as evidenced by the tour.

There are two things that inspire great music. Love & War. Love songs, and war songs. Some of the best music ever written happen during Vietnam protests. Those same bastards of 1969 that Billie speaks of are the hypocrites that were smoking joints and protesting the war in Vietnam who are now propagating the war. WAR creates great music (also great guns and airplanes).

TCB had it, but not as much (the timing that is).

this is more or less what i was trying to say. you just sound smarter than i am

oh and from a promotional/whatever perspective - i think they released 21 guns way too early. it wasn't a good choice as a second single. kye is def the weakest song on the album, but it's a good leading single because it's a punch in the face, sort of. horseshoes and handgrenades makes a better effect but they obv couldn't release that because it wouldn't get as much airplay, due to the profanity. the majority of people buying the music are the people listening to the leading single and loving it, therefore going out and buying it (or downloading it). a lot of these people are also teens who listen to the radio to discover new music. less airplay for the leading single = less album sales. not many kids nowadays go digging for music, they either stick to what they know or go with what's being overplayed this week.

releasing 21 guns was a good decision but it was a decision that was made far too early; the peak 21st century breakdown's success was when that song came out. it should've been one of the last singles, i think.

[Maddy.]

Probably because it was a bit rubbish. As opposed to American Idiot, which was rather good.

Jfc, I love your posts.

[klytaemnestra]

I didn't read your post. I will go back. And let me just say, if you know this at 14, I am NOT smarter than you, just older. When I was 14 I could give a shit about politics so in reality, that would make you smarter.

haha, thank you. i don't take much interest in politics, not in the US, anyway. (i'm from england.) but i knew a bit about it because i had friends over there and obviously, the content of american idiot made me interested. i wanted to know what they were so angry about. i guess that was part of the appeal of the album.

[Doctor Demon]

I gotta agree with a lot of other people... 21CB's promotion was terrible. I think they just had way too much going on at the time, like the musical, and Rock Band.

[Ellenkc]

I was 10 when AI came out and while I didn't notice the more subtle references in the album, I definitely was alot more politically concious than your average 10 year old after listening to it. I actually started to pay attention to the news. That's one thing I admire about AI, it made alot of younger fans notice politics, not all obviously but alot of the ones who paid closer attention. But even before AI came out most of my class was of the opinion that George W Bush was a dumbfuck, that was our parents opinions passed onto us of course but I'll never forget one scene when I was about 9 and our teacher asked our class what we would do if we could wish for anything and about 10 Irish 8-9 year olds said some variation of 'Kill Bush'.

The album expanded my views on the situation in the US rather than the previous, Bush is bad vibe I got everywhere

[-AMRC-]

I completely agree with what has already been said, but I don't think bad promotion is necessarily the main reason for it. I do agree, however, that the promotion was terrible, and I think that the singles released could have been better. In my opinion, there are stronger and better songs on the album.

I absolutely love 21CB, probably more than A.I. but I think part of the reason that 21CB was less successful than A.I. was that there were high expectations. A lot of Green Day fans began with A.I, it was a whole new era in Green Day's music. I think that people's expectations were too high after A.I. Many interviews brought up the subject with the band "how do you top American Idiot?" so I reckon people were quite disappointed with the result!

There's also the fact that some "fans" preferred songs like "Holiday" and "Boulevard of Broken Dreams" but probably don't know any of the rest of the album. In other words, I think a lot of people have jumped back off the bandwagon since American Idiot blew over!

[Are We The Waiting?]

i think it's because american idiot was sort of a huge comeback from the not as successful warning. it introduced a new style to the fans and obtained new ones along the road from the buzz. people waited for something new and american idiot was like christmas in september. and 21st century breakdown was like an encore to american idiot for me, since it was the same style, but people were kinda expecting something like AI.

that still doesn't mean 21CB was a complete and utter failure, it pleased me to see that green day is still writing masterpieces.

[klytaemnestra]

Ok, I read your post and yes, RELEVANCE. I actually started a thread several months ago entitled is Green Day's music still as relevant as before and it was an interesting thread. I'll try and dig it up to link it for you.

Yes, and most of my dealing are with people from England. You were, what, 9 then? Anyway, when I went to work there, people would literally ask me what MY government was doing, and why THEY were being dragged in. It was horrible.

BTW people, it wasn't promotion. IT WAS this. American Idiot had some better songs I think, but maybe not. Can never decide. Some of my favorite songs are on TCB.

yeah i think i saw that thanks.

yeah i was nine when american idiot came out, and i was about ten and a half when i got the album i think? but i saw american idiot being performed on tv and their raw anger just sucked me in. it's probably something to do with the fact that there were family issues going on too, but it was just so fascinating to me as a child.

i have to disagree with your last point though; i do think promotion had something to do with it, as well as the relevance/timing of the release. it was still an amazingly successful album but they could have pulled it off so much better.

[xjernpqvrnbfv]

I think Green Day kinda suprised everyone when they put out American Idiot. It was something new and they released it at the perfect time. The promotion was way better and they chose better singles.

21st CBD is also epic, but people probably don't seem to realize that, because the promotion sucked. And 21guns is the only single that had succes Some people probably had too high or just different expectations of the new album.

And I also think that Rob Cavallo did a better job than Butch Vig.

I don't know if it's just me, but I have the feeling that people don't really listen to rock or even punk music nowadays.

[Bubbles.]

they have to bring back Rob Cavallo.

YES.

[FannyDefoe]

I think AI was more of a shock to everyone at that time because of the clear statement and the singles were really clever chosen.

Now with 21CB I think they didn't put out the right songs. I mean the really catchy ones like Peacemaker or East Jesus Nowhere.

I dunno about the other countries but the German Radio stationes use to play the songs dead.. so there's constantly 21Guns or Know your enemy. and they hardly play 21st CB (I heard it only ONCE since it has been released... so maybe ppl think that's all they've got which is pretty sad ... but I'm always excited whenever I hear them on the radio

[Are We The Waiting?]

YES.

TIMES TWO.

[Sanity Loan]

Promotion. Period.

Edit: And single/music video choice

[Maddy.]

Sam. Bayer.

That is all.

[Bastard of 1967]

which is why artists such as Lady Gaga and Kesha have exploded with popularity.

Retch.

[Guest billyjoegurl]

Retch.

theyre quite good you know! theyre popular. doesnt mean theyre shit.

[abhishek]

its quite good but not great. AI was legendary.

[fadi_7]

for me 21CB=American idiot cause everyone tells a different story i think 21 CB didn't do well as American idiot cause 21 CB came out in few YEARS later it's about 5 years i think in those 5 years a lot of people stooped listening to green day (i didn't )...

for me 21CB=American idiot cause everyone tells a different story i think 21 CB didn't do well as American idiot cause 21 CB came out in few YEARS later it's about 5 years i think in those 5 years a lot of people stooped listening to green day (i didn't )...

[Bastard of 1967]

theyre quite good you know! theyre popular. doesnt mean theyre shit.

OK I'll "un-retch" Lady Gaga, she has some real talent (and an awesome voice), I just don't like how she overdoes it on stage...she's good enough just standing on her own merits that she doesn't really need to be so "over the top" to be noticed. But Ke$ha? Synonymous with "pop tart." Give pop culture trends another year or two to shift again, and you'll wonder why she disappeared from the charts as fast as she got there.

[Maddy.]

OK I'll "un-retch" Lady Gaga, she has some real talent (and an awesome voice), I just don't like how she overdoes it on stage...she's good enough just standing on her own merits that she doesn't really need to be so "over the top" to be noticed. But Ke$ha? Synonymous with "pop tart." Give pop culture trends another year or two to shift again, and you'll wonder why she disappeared from the charts as fast as she got there.

Well, she definitely overdoes it. But that's what's so awesome about her. Ke$ha is just temporarily popular. She'll blow over.